Forum Topic

Subsidised tenants are excluded from pool and gym in London block.

An interesting article in The Guardian today involving both L&Q and Ballymore proponents of the regeneration of Brentford    –https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/01/subsidised-tenants-are-excluded-from-pool-and-gym-in-london-tower?CMP=share_btn_link

Martin Case ● 2873d28 Comments

Why are we so surprised?

Vanessa Smith ● 2873d

Well for £1.2million the buyer surely  could expect something extra and exclusive.  The additional overheads, service charges etc are surely more for the privately owned flats in this complex.  If the other residents want all those extras, then they should work hard to fork out the £1.3 million to get them - why should they be given it all?  Life's a bitch but it does NOT owe you a living.  Who ever valued anything they get for seemingly nothing?  Just look at the way the NHS is abused by so many not bothering to turn up for appointments, if they had to pay, they'd be there.

Jennifer Selig ● 2873d

It would be far better if the Government allowed the Councils to build social housing.

Philippa Bond ● 2873d

Hear, hear, the housing problems that beset us will not be solved until and unless they do. I'd also like to see them using alternative construction methods so that they can build cheaply and quickly using environmentally friendly technology which is now available.

Vanessa Smith ● 2872d

Is there any reason this technology is not being used right now - seems madness that's it is not.

Jennifer Selig ● 2872d

Agree - I have seen so many of these built off site homes - that are just delivered and installed - and also flats constructed like it - but for some reason builders still want to stick to bricks and mortar. At a time of crisis we should be pulling all the stops out and using everything that's available.

Vanessa Smith ● 2872d

I don't get the big deal with this.I live in a development where we have a concierge, gym and leisure suite that is only for us for the residents of the private part, not the social housing block.  We pay for those facilities from our service charge, the social housing bloke doesn't pay the same level of service charge, end of story to me.If you want to argue discrimination and equality than turn the argument on its head - isn't it just as discriminatory that a low income household can pay a lower rent to live there than someone else who earns £70,000 a year, who wouldn't even be eligible for those properties ?.  Maybe I'm just hard but I've no sympathy at all, and if the people who are able to take advantage of this don't do their basic homework first to establish what does and doesn't come with their 60% market rent property, then there's one word for those people - muppets.

Adam Beamish ● 2872d

Maybe I'm just hard but I've no sympathy at all, and if the people who are able to take advantage of this don't do their basic homework first to establish what does and doesn't come with their 60% market rent property, then there's one word for those people - muppets.I applied for one of those flat in your development through the locata website. You are given very scant information about the the property, basically, number of rooms, the rent, and who could bid for them.There was no mention of any facilitates that were located in the development. But when you are living crap property any new build development has o be 100% better than yours. But when does a council house tenant get any details given to them to research about a property? You basically add up if you can afford the rent and other utility's and it's not located in a notorious area.As to your £70000, the average tradesman earns between £30000 and £35000, so your tenant with £70000 wouldn't look twice at that development.About 18 months ago I was turned down for a Hounslow Council scheme for affordable housing, Half rent half buy, the short story is, I had to earn £42000 a year to be considered. It soon went back to the developers scheme as Hounslow must of dropped out.

Bernard Allen ● 2872d

These "affordable" properties just aren't affordable to the many WORKING people who are not evening earning enough to live on.Council properties can no longer be handed on in the way that they used to be.  That has changed - although there are still some that should and could easily be handed on that haven't. It obviously ought to be made easier for this to happen.  Selling off Council housing and not allowing the Councils to use all the money received to build more was the problem.Anyway this is new:https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/housing-communities-and-local-government-committee/news/social-housing-green-17-19/

Philippa Bond ● 2872d

But you're not complaining Bernard !.  And as for scant information provided, people can always ask - I recall many years back I looked at some similar accommodation when I was eligible and I asked loads of questions about things like whether the block had a communal Sky dish etc.I agree with much of what you say, but at least one person in that article seemed to have made advance plans about using the pool with his family, but it never seemed to enter his head that he might not be able to use it.That's what I don't get, if I'm paying 40% less than the market rate I'd be thinking "where's the catch ?" , not bleating to the Guardian afterwards.My point about the £70k was merely the fact that because there's an eligibility criteria for the 60% market rent units that's no more or no less inequality than those tenants not having access to the facilities.  So if we all wanted true equality across the board in this world (which I certainly don't) then everyone would be equally eligible for those flats regardless of what they earned.  But when people are moaning about how they want equality, they never think it through.

Adam Beamish ● 2872d

Where are the workhouses being built?

Philippa Bond ● 2872d

Award winning but temporary. Just how temporary remains to be seen.

Philippa Bond ● 2872d

http://ealingnewsextra.co.uk/features/shipping-homes/

Philippa Bond ● 2872d

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUIRRp0i-3w

Philippa Bond ● 2872d

I see Ballymore/L & Q have conceded to the Mayor - I wonder what they'll get in return? https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/01/excluded-tenants-gain-access-to-gym-and-pool-in-london-complex

Martin Case ● 2871d

What a pathetic backtrack, and a dangerous one at that.Imagine if you were one of the residents who has paid full market value and the hefty service charge for those facilities, and then you find out that someone else is paying 60% what you are and not paying the service charge towards those facilities yet still has equal rights to use them.

Adam Beamish ● 2871d

I fully agree with Adam - if I were a resident of one of those places with a hefty service charge and super facilities included like a gym and swimming pool - I'd be furious if any old bod uses it with me paying his admission fee!  What a sauce - why should I?  No-one gets it all for nothing - you have to work and SAVE - many I see smoke and drink it away and have big flashier cars than mine, and enormous state of the art TVs.  My nephew and his girlfriend are sharing a tiny studio flat.  They are both straight from Uni and in first jobs - they have very few treats, still need some help from mum&dad banks to pay for heating etc. they are really trying to be independent and stand on their own feet.  I'm not saying everyone abuses the system but far too many do.  I've just spent several hours in an A&E crammed with people who had neither an accident, nor was their treatment an emergency!  Either they don't understand how to look after minor scratches and knocks, or they can't be bothered to plan how to see their GP (it is possible to get a same day appointment if you follow the rules) - much easier to stroll along to A&E blocking up the system and costing the NHS a fortune.

Jennifer Selig ● 2868d

What a brilliant idea - when will Hounslow follow suit? I cannot see any problem using all sorts of alternative methods to provide homes for people.

Vanessa Smith ● 2868d

What I cannot understand is why A&E staff don't send time wasters on their merry way with advice to either talk to a pharmacist or their G.P. I have always had a medicine chest in the bathroom with painkillers, plasters, ointment for scratches etc. available.

Vanessa Smith ● 2868d

It looks good doesn't it - however I don't know what the insulation and ventilation is like in cold or hot weather.

Philippa Bond ● 2868d

I asked that very question when I eventually got seen.  The answer is that because the person is there, they have to be seen and ailments checked out IN CASE later it turns out little Johnnie's bump has cause brain damage and the NHS sued vast sums.I remember before the NHS, our mums coped with a brood of kids, 3 in my case and a very aged grandma with only very rare calls to the GP - which, of course, you had to pay for.  Going to the hospital was a rarity - people in car crashes got taken there, stroke and heart attack victims also went the rest of us got on with it.  When needed, I remember our GP coming in to see us 24/7 - raving temperature and spots, an obviously dislocated joint and in the case of my gran, a stroke clambering upstairs to bed.  People tend to treasure and value anything they actually see they have to pay for.  With the NHS financed by the Government via our taxes, the cost to each individual is unseen.  To many it is an institution that is free for all to access as and when you want.  Therefore, not properly cherished and valued and thus abused by very many.

Jennifer Selig ● 2868d

And if you eventually get an appointment at the GPs (they aren't a walk-in clinic) you can only get whatever experience they have.  You are not going to get a diagnostic Xray or scan.  You may find out years later that you/your child did crack something that would have been better dealt with and less costly monetarywise and lifewise if dealt with at the time.  What we have still doesn't work well because there can be a kerching think money/cost first rather than think patient first system.  We could definitely do without so many drunk people - especially teenagers - in A&E.  Drink makes some people violent and then we get stabbings.  Go to A&E in the evenings and just see what they have to deal with.

Philippa Bond ● 2868d

"We pay for those facilities from our service charge, the social housing bloke doesn't pay the same level of service charge, end of story to me."Agreed

Steve Taylor ● 2868d

Should money allow you to buy everything and anything?Is money the be-all and end-all?

Philippa Bond ● 2867d

Hopefully not, but that's the extreme of capitalism, and conversely the extreme of across the board equality would be that every resident of a development would pay the same price for a 1 bed flat, the same service charge, have access to the same facilities etc.Somewhere between those 2 extremes is a reasonable middle ground, which to me is that eligible people can obtain a property within the development at 60% market rent and paying a significantly lower service charge, whilst not having access to all facilities.

Adam Beamish ● 2867d

Perhaps the landlord could open the gym for use by  to all, those who do not pay a service charge to pay monthly etc.?

Keith Iddon ● 2867d

Don't agree - you can't have it all - wait for the "extras" until you can afford to pay for them, you're fortunate to be able to live in a comfortable, clean, environment for a subsidised rent - count your chickens and carry on striving to get more things if you want to work and save up for them.I grew up in a comfortable, loving household but we got nothing from my parents unless we worked for it and it's been a good lesson for all of us.  We had presents at birthdays and Christmas time only.  My dad wouldn't even lend me the deposit on a house when I was about 21 and in a well paid job - he firmly said, no, you work some more and save up - the same with my first car.  Sounds harsh but they were always there for us - when we were teens my dad always said if we were ever in a situation where we felt uncomfortable, we were to phone anytime of the day or night and he'd come to fetch us - he did too, often from quite a distance at 2am!  I know how lucky my sisters and I are and were.

Jennifer Selig ● 2866d

I agree with the sentiments Jennifer but don't see what's wrong with those on a subsidised rent joining the gym for a monthly fee.All memberships are subject to behaviour after all.

Keith Iddon ● 2865d